Request: DragScript watchdog

Hey Rowland! First, thanks for digging through my walls of text, most people’s eyes glaze over! :slight_smile:

When I originally started using Voyager I basically did what you’re suggesting, with the difference that I had a sequence with an absolute end rather than an absolute begin … and I’ll also add the disclaimer that I likely didn’t use DragScript/ sequences properly, so there’s that … take the ST4 total time, create a sequence that did the suggested time/ count thing, set my absolute end time, done.

And you’re right, I’m definitely to the right of the 80/20 curve, so there’s that …

That said, there are some objects that only show up for a few weeks a year in an ideal imaging A position … and good nights are few and far between! Usually I have B position targets, which means I need to gather a lot of signal to get something worth stacking … like, 40-60hr of signal … so that lost time really hurts when you realize it’s probably going to be another year before you can get back to gather enough signal to finish the 50 light stack (another justification for putting lot’s of scopes on target, I’d like to finish this stuff now rather than leave it to the great grandkids) …

What I discovered when I did what you suggest (absolute end time, ST4 programmed with estimates of actual time) was that the Voyager sequence time didn’t include block execution time, only sequence execution time … times for independent block actions like focusing and guide star acquisition (even though they were noted in the sequence, like for focus failover) weren’t being covered by the sequence, which means they happened outside of the absolute end (or start) time. Unfortunately those two actions are both necessary and variable in time … so if it took longer to focus than expected due to a failover or retry, I ended up not doing a sequence I had just gotten focused for due to hitting the time limit … maddening …

The other problem was the granularity; sequences are designed for groups of pix (take 10 at 5 min) and if the sequence won’t trigger due to not enough time for 10 at 5 min and there’s enough time for 9 at 5 min it exits and, well, that’s just even more maddening … and I’m not going to make a singleton sequence for each light and chain them one after each other, did that enough with SGP!

Again, part of my problem could be that I don’t know the program well enough (maybe there’s a simple answer that I missed, easily possible!) … but fundamentally I need to do this:

Given a time allotted for an object … slew to that object, focus on that object, get a guidestar, start to track and take as many pix as possible before I need to move on to the next. That sounds simple enough, but the only way I found to do it reliably with the variable slew/ guidestar/ focusing times was as I’ve described. If I only rely on the sequence timings then I can’t factor in the slew/ focus/ guidestar times, if I take “worse case” times for those things and simply delay my sequences by those times I’m going to be having dark time go to waste …

Oh, and check your pixel scales to make sure you’re getting the right exposures with CMOS … I have an ASI 183MM CMOS for my L channel, and since I’m hideously oversampled on that with my C14 I need to have really LONG exposures to get good signal, on the order of 15-20min per light …

Thanks again for your suggestions, hopefully between you, me and Leonard we can get me out of the WatchDog program business! :slight_smile:

This is not true Craig, Voyager report time for each single actions (each blocks are done from actions). Also report complete time for finish sequence (focus,guide,calibration,shot, download time based on bin, dithering and so and so) … realigned at each action inside sequence. See attached image.

post-73074-0-71750600-1547343548

In anycase sequence is not deterministic and the time could change.

All the best
Leo

Of course i am not saying it cannot be done, but since Emilio started the avalanche i hope we do not push to much pressure on Leo :slight_smile: There are still older things that might be important for the most, such as the mosaic wizard. Introducing a planner on this software might mean to redesign a lot of things… at this point it is like to talk about the sex od angels…

Still, if Ascom/vendors doesn’t set a standart for cmos cameras, that are the mainstream topsellers, there is not a way to jump from LRGB to narrowband.

Startools is a pretty huge complex software, so that the theveloper watch out to put out results too easy to read and export…

No problems Alessandro … you can count Voyager users number with two hands.
I’m happy to help other AP like me if i can … for Mosaic Wizard i don’t think to do this … there’s a lot of software that can realize this and also for free.

All the best
LO

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Craig,

I’m guilty of the walls of text too, so empathy here!

Let’s look at a concrete example and see if Leo can help us. Here’s an actual ST4 schedule excerpt:

image

And here’s my DragScript for this:

And the Sequence parameters:

I won’t post all the Sequence options here - too many screens :slight_smile: - but this will involve a precise pointing slew to M64 with a meridian flip, a rotator move to PA 117, and a VCurve focus. Then the sequence says to take 60 one-minute exposures.

My timings in ST4 are too short, so let’s say after the precise pointing and autofocus there is time left for 55 instead of 60 exposures.

KEY QUESTION: I believe Voyager will take as many exposures as it can until 04:31, then it will move to the next target in my DragScript. I think this is the best I can do since I want to use precision pointing, rotation, and autofocus.

I don’t think anything more complicated will get me more images of M64 in the allotted time. I could refine my timings in ST4 so it knows, say, there is only time for 55 images, not 60. But the end result is the same - I get 55 images.

Am I missing anything?

I think the key is your belief that “if the sequence won’t trigger due to not enough time for 10 at 5 min and there’s enough time for 9 at 5 min it exits.” I’m saying it will take 9 images and then move on. But I could be wrong!!!

Cheers,
Rowland

If you define an absolute time start and end voyager sequence block start if time >= start and end <= end time and absolutely end with abort at time you ask for end. If you check the flag "finish running exposure … " the actual exposure if beginning before time end will be finished and action aborted. If you dont use this flag action time intervall will be respected at seconds (abort time to add but usually is just few seconds).

All the best
LO

Thanks Leo - so to be 100% clear - if my sequence is set to run 60 one-minute images and I have 50 minutes left until end time, Voyager will take as many of the 60 images as possible in the remaining time.

Right?

Thanks!
Rowland

Yes i confirm this … (i must reach 20 char to answer :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:)

Good! I guess I need to reach 20 too - so Craig, interested to see if this helps!
Rowland

Agree. Making a mosaic wizard would end making a planetarium…

Hey Rowland, good stuff! You’re organizing your blocks in a different way than I am doing … it looks like a cascading sequence, where I had a serial sequence … that’'s something I hadn’t considered, definitely something to try out! Thanks also to Leo for correcting me on the report times and the “as many as possible” thing, that’s all operator error on me!

I’m going to make up some sequence chains following your cascading approach using the ASCOM simulators and see what happens when I replicate some errors as well as putting that into my live systems … it will take about two weeks or so to get enough results to see if I can get the missed sequence down, but this is very encouraging!

Thanks again to you both for helping out with this on your weekend time (that’s two bottles I owe you … red or white?) and I think two cases to Leo … :slight_smile:

:heart_eyes: red … is ok

In this image you found 2 blocks that run 2 sequence for all the interval (start to end) asked. If finish for some reason restart for failover or just because is to short for interval. I think can be usefull. I use this way in my night for failover.

Also you find in this image a new toy for you and all Dragscript deep users:

All the best
Leo

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Both are great, much thanks! I’ll combine that DragScript with Rowland’s ideas and give it a try, hopefully I can retire the WatchDog! :slight_smile:

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Great stuff Leo!

The Wiki has been updated with the new features.

https://voyager.tourstar.net

Cheers,
Rowland

Thank you so much Rowland … great !

What is best option for just letting the all the listed Sequences complete all exposures ?
Immediately Start and Finish With Astronomical night?

Max

Yes, that would not put any restrictions on start or end time other than end of the astronomical night.

Be careful that if you do that, you are sure you will not be imaging too low because of a delay in start due to an Emergency Suspend, or because earlier sequences are taking longer than you expected.

Specifying a minimum altitude here or in the Sequence definition is a good safety stop.

In the worst case, if there were no checks in either Voyager or your mount software on target time or altitude, and meridian flips were not managed, you could have an equipment-damaging pier crash if your sequence went longer than you expected.

Personally I like having the safety of an absolute start and end time specified, with an altitude limit too. Belt and suspenders :slight_smile: !

Cheers,
Rowland

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Thanks Rowland. I will add the alt limit.

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Hopefully you never need it - but when you run unattended it is good to have several levels of safety nets enabled!

I also have my mount firmware set to not allow slewing to a point less than 10 degrees above the horizon. In my area, there is no clear sky below 20 degrees (trees, buildings) so no reason to every be going that low.

Cheers,
Rowland