Dual Setup Questions


#1

Hi,

First of all i apologize to write in english, that’s just to open the post to anyone :slight_smile:

As you have seen on CN, i have started to test your software, in order to automate TSX. I do really like it,it’s damn well done!

However i have a couple of things to sort out, becouse the behaviour of tsx was wired, even if expected. My setup is made by an Muno with two refractors, a 107+QHY163M+FW, and a 71+ASI290 (guide). Both scopes have a focuser (6Senso). My goal is to automate both focuses before start acquiring.

As i connect items, of course it opens the main camera, but i get the guide focuser (COM3 instead COM11,that has its logic). It might an idea to have a complete dual rig setup?

Secondary, is there a way to manage Cmos gain/offset settings=? how can i manage LRGB and Narrow on the same night?

Thanks for advice, and keep going this way :slight_smile:

(happy holidays to all!)


#2

Sorry but I did not understand Alessandro. Do you want to focus on the guiding tele automatically?

The last time I did the focus on the guiding camera I think it’s been 10 years ago. Unless you have long focal lengths that the guide setup is in focus perfectly or not it does not help much. A good caliper at the beginning of the evening if you’re traveling is the best solution.

If instead you refer to making shots with two setup on a single mount then Voyager has an Array management up to 4 elements.

For the setup if you use TSX the configuration of the camera is inside. For the guide you do not have to indicate the camera in Voyager but the program with which you will guiding.

The invasion of CMOS has brought us back a lot in my opinion especially in an area of ​​automation where there are lack of producers who have dealt with things at high quality level … for offset and gain the problem is that many camera have ASCOM drivers that do not work well with these settings … probably in the last period may have improved things. If it is so necessary as an implementation I can put it in the lineup.

The philosophy of Voyager is to really offer the features that do not compromise the reliability of the system and with CMOS I find it a big difficulty at the moment.

All the best


#3

I struggled a lot with a rotator focuser, so since i had 2 borg i’ve decided to sell guide scope and work with the two. however, another thing i could do is luminance on 71, rgb on 107. from what i understood it is becoming pretty common. it might be an option to have two indipendent focusers.

About cmos, i can confirm that i had many driver problem with qhy… maybe the only strong competitor is atik. unluckly… sooner or later all camera will be cmos…

off topic:how’s colle dell’agnello for imaging? i was near your places in the end of sept and i was impressed from your mountains!


#4

Sorry Again but in Voyager you cannot manage 2 camera and 2 focuser. You need to create an array in Voyager. This Because to manage the interaction a dedicated actions manager is needed and not only 2 camera control and 2 focuser control.

If instead you want to manage 2 setup depending on sequence type you can create 2 different profile in Voyager and choose the right one before connect.

I’m not sure about CMOS will be the future … new technology for CCD must change
the field.

Currently CMOS are cheap, the storage warehouses are full of old sensors at low prices and the technology to use them is much simpler than CCDs. So ask yourself why the houses that use them are only Asian and Chinese in practice …

The Colle dell’Agnello is a nice place to take pictures, there are better ones in the area and accessible all year round anyway. Unfortunately, however, since the LEDs have even arrived in mountain villages, the situation has drastically deteriorated.


#5

I can manage that from TSX, not a real deal. I will learn how to manage arrays, after trial’s end i’ll be movint to voyager.

thanks for advice!

Happy xmas and new year!

Ale


#6

Merry Christmas to you !


#7

Maybe i have found a workaround:

in the tab “Actions->Setup” add a voice “load profile”. In this way i can load the guide camera as main,do focus, disconnect and load imaging profile. But that would not its main function: figure out that someone does some experiments at home, replaces some items with simulators,or changes minor parameters that forget to reset. Moves 150km to reach a good mountain, forget to check profile and trash some imaging hours… that would be a pain! It happened to all of us to miss a screwdriver, a cable, a silly item worth 1€ that trashed our journey -.-

I try to explain the scenario that i am trying to develop: in order to reach a dark sky i need to move at least 60km. When i start from home i wish to have both focusers fully closed,possibly without loosing calibration. Then i have to mount everything, rough polar align, focus both scopes, THEN pause to balance. sync home,polar align (whatever polaris,drift,polemaster),platesolve&sync, finally image. At the end of the night, warm up camera, close focusers, pack everything and go to breakfast :slight_smile:

And here comes probably my last question: how does your users manage manual actions? what if i have to cover scope, rotate camera,apply flatfield… all the actions that are not automated? An action called “pause sequence” that pops up a balloon with “resume/end” buttons and comment in make sense? Or tipically users does two separate scripts?

Thanks for advice.

p.s.: my dragscript is growing healty and strong,i am very happy so far. i hope tonight fog allows me to test robofocus, seems to be very useful even to set correct spacers! :slight_smile:

Ciaooooo!!!


#8

I think to be itinerant from about eleven years with more complex setup but not dual. Usually you have already calculated with a caliper where is the focus. Signed with a tape where is the calibation of telescope setup. This mean you arrive in site, mount all in five minutes and have all ready to start. Open the profile realted to setup and check if all is ok, connect all to voyager., open the sequence you prepared before with simulator (or use from last used, usually i take 2-5 years to finish an object). Align mount to polar star. Move telescope with handpand to a random zone to the est, switch to onthefly , blind solve, sync. Focusing with robostar or localfield. Load sequence if you do only one target or load dragscript with more than one sequence. Press start dragscript. Get out of car the Dobson and enjoy the sky or going to see a film or sleep in the car or help your friend that have sistematics problem.

Flat you can take after first align solve and focus, running a flat sequence.

In your case you can switch to second profile just for focus and go back. For manual operation you can use the onthefly section, you find all you need.

My opinion is that 2 setup need 2 pc and an array manager or a virtual environment.

In anycase you can pause a sequence or a dragscript (if is running sequence) and run a secondary action and resume.

I hope to help you.
LO


#9

Agree. The only difference is that technology made caliper a little less necessary. I have a focus around 14300 steps, the other at 24600, it is natural that on begin sequence i send both at their point :slight_smile:

Tech development has become incredible and a joy to use. I remember when i was a child, going to image with other people: no ccd, no autoguiding. Bathinov focus, then babysitting the guide for ten hours… Ahhh…!

I perfectly agree that arrays requests a master/slave technology, same as digital signage (videowalls) has master clock player (web server). It is a matter of sync and reliability. With cmos, if you narrowband usb traffic you get amp glow. I had a lot of problems with qhy drivers, many times i had to switch physically plugs to get cameras seen. Also, i had problems that image was downloaded shattered into a mosaic. I’ve attempted to test three cameras on desk ona usb and we were at limit. A dual rig into one pc would be safer with cameras not in sync and download one a time. But these are just meaningless free toughts :slight_smile:

Be proud of your software, you took a complete different approach from the rest, it is a joy to use.

Hope this bucket of fog goes away, wish to make my vcurves :stuck_out_tongue:


#10

Many thanks , you are so kind.


#11

Voyager can manage array of telescope up to 4 …but use LAN or Virtual environment. This is the unique software i know do that, i developed it for a professional observatories. But can also run multiple instance (now is blocked but i can open). Because you don’t ask exactly what you need with a single PC (if your PC can support all the charge of software running like ram processor and usb traffic). This can help me to understand. I see a thread on CN so long and probably i can do what’s needed.


#12

Scusami,
ti scrivo in italiano sperando di evitare fraintendimenti. volevo aprire le conversazioni a tutti :slight_smile:

Il tuo software va benissimo così com’è: hai fatto un gran colpo con gli array,anche a livello di design software! A me bastava automatizzare anche il focheggiatore della seconda ottica, in modo che quando trasporto tutto il “groppone” tengo i focheggiatori chiusi. Lo script che sto creando è un grosso “wizard” da campo, sto cercando di minimizzare gli errori. Son già andato in malora per minchiate assurde! (una volta addirittura mi son chiuso fuori dal dhcp, per la prima volta in vita mia non avevo dietro uno stupidissimo mikrotik… e tu guarda il caso!)
Al momento ho fatto uno script separato: connetti tutto, muovi il focheggiatore in posizione x, gira il telescopio a sud, effettua il fuoco, disconnetti. Dopo il bilanciamento e l’allineamento polare il tuo software da solo inizia a farsi il modello multistella della m-uno. Sapevo dell’esistenza di orchestrate per tsx, ma non avevo mai visto un software in grado di farlo con la facilità come lo fa il tuo!

In merito alle funzioni più o meno strampalate che ti chiedo per il dragscript, ti racconto un aneddoto:
Io lavoro come antennista, da anni ho iniziato a vendere le tv professionali con le interfacce e tutte le cosucce che servono agli hotel. Mi arriva una commessa grossa, un cliente importanti con numeri importanti. Preparo l’interfaccia con cura, calcolo bene immagini, spazi, lista canali grafica che cambia in base alla lingua scelta… insomma impacchetto bene tutta la tecnologia per far bella figura! Arriva il direttore, accende il primo tv e mi fa: “Tira via tutto, voglio un bottone che mi mandi su rai 1, uno sulla CNN ed uno su ZDF, basta”. Cosa vien fuori? che con gli LG non si può fare uno stupido bottone con la funzione “vai al canale tv 50”. In un barile di tristezza, ho riprogrammato i televisori come normali tv da casa…

Morale della favola: anche se non sembra aver senso, aggiungi i comandi che il dragscript ti permette (inizia guida, finisci guida, carica profilo,pausa,… tutto quello che ti viene in mente) ci penserà la fantasia dell’utente a renderli operativi :slight_smile: Se poi veramente riuscirai a sviluppare le fasi lunari e le decisioni in base alla fase lunare… mammasantissima,sarà la killer feature! :scream:

Capitolo Dual rig:

Parlando con tante persone, mi sto rendendo conto che molti iniziano ad usare un secondo telescopio in piggyback o parallelo, oltre alla guida. Mi ha risposto uno ad un annuncio su astrosell oggi, parlando mi invia una foto del suo osservatorio ed anche questo ha una mesu con due ottiche parallele. che fa? usa due sessioni di SGP. Ora io non so esattamente come si comportino i software a livello di codice (e di banda passante, che per le cmos è una cosa molto delicata), però inizia a sondare il campo in quanto molti si stanno chiedendo come mai se i driver ascom accettano 2 camere di ripresa e 2 guide,nessun software gestisca due camere di ripresa (eccetto prism). Ovviamente non è necessario che tu mi dia spiegazioni tecniche,ma tieni sott’occhio la cosa. l’array è un’ottima scelta,molto sicura ed efficace!

Perdonami se sono stato un pò rompiscatole,però credimi, vista la competenza che hai mostrato sviluppando questo software, avrei veramente piacere se il tuo software diventasse uno degli standard amatoriali. Nonappena son sicuro di non aver sorprese dalla carta di credito (di non andare in negativo) procedo immediatamente all’acquisto della licenza!

Buona serata, e complimenti di nuovo!